LAKELAND, Fla. — The Major League Baseball Players Association on Tuesday rejected a collective bargaining agreement offer from Major League Baseball leading up to the owners’ self-imposed 5 p.m. deadline, leading MLB commissioner Rob Manfred to cancel the first two series of the regular season.
Detroit Tigers catcher Tucker Barnhart is an MLBPA player representative. He has been in a leadership position with the union for six years and was traded from the Cincinnati Reds to the Tigers in November.
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Barnhart spoke to the Free Press about the collective bargaining agreement negotiations, what the union is thinking, his role as a player rep, the 2022 season and where baseball goes from here.
You wanted to take a day to think about all of this. Now that we’re talking, what do you think about the past 48 hours or so?
“Disappointed is probably the one that I’ll lean on. I’m disappointed for a number of reasons. First and foremost, just like all of us, I grew up playing ball. Really, that’s all I want to do. I want to play baseball. I want to be in a position where I’m on the field helping the team win. I’m not going to speak for everybody, but I’m pretty confident in saying that — on that note — I could speak for everybody.
“Secondly, and it’s probably more of a 1-B rather than No. 2 on the list, the fans. I think guys take for granted the fans. And I think the COVID year was a major indication of that. We missed, and I missed, interacting with fans during 2020, and it was so awesome for them to be back in 2021. We’ve been through so much as far as the player-to-fan relationship where this sucks. That’s probably the best way I can put it.
“But it’s a disappointing feeling, to answer your question. I like to live my life as an optimist. I believe I’ve told you that before. I’m still optimistic. The last 48 hours put that to the test, especially (Tuesday), but you got to keep being optimistic, in my opinion. Hopefully these first two series being canceled are the only things that get canceled.”
What happened on Tuesday?
“I haven’t been in the meetings physically like some guys have. However, I have been on all the calls. I know exactly where we stood and where we stand as a union and as a Players Association. The rhetoric that was out there as far as progress was considered, I’ll be the first one to tell you I mistakenly viewed that as reality. I know where we stand in regards to where we believe we need to be compensated and where our game — from our side — needs to be. I thought some progress had been made overnight or in the wee hours of the morning when I was sleeping. I woke up feeling optimistic. I even told my wife, ‘I think a deal gets done today.’ The first call that I was on (Tuesday), at about 10 a.m., pretty much affirmed where we were and where we stand as a union. Unfortunately, that stance is not in a deal with the league.”
“It was a whirlwind. I woke up optimistic and hoping there was a deal that was in the works and close to being done. Once we spoke with the union, we realized how far apart we still were. It quickly turned, to be quite honest, sad. I just want to play ball, and I think everybody in my position wants to do the same.”
Why do you think there was the narrative that the two sides were getting close to a deal Monday night and into the early hours Tuesday?
“I don’t know. I think there’s a media battle that’s being fought, as well. I would say, and this is probably a little biased, but I believe it to ring true, the players are winning that part of the negotiation right now from a public relations standpoint. I have to believe, and this is my opinion, that it was a narrative pushed by the other side of the negotiations to try and make us look bad.
“Listen, we’re negotiating things that we believe, based on industry revenues, are fair for us players. Every labor battle is all relative to the job that you work. If your industry or your job is bringing in revenues higher than it’s ever seen, and your business owner, boss or whoever handles your paycheck is wanting to pay you the same or less than you have been making, that’s never going to fly with anyone at any job. … That’s where we’re at right now. We’re standing up for what we feel is right and what we feel will pave the way to make our game better for years to come and for generations to come and for players to come that are going to play well after I’m done. We as players, especially older players, have a job to do, and that’s to leave the game better than when we first made our way to the big leagues. I think that’s what we’re trying accomplish from a player’s perspective.”
You mentioned you felt disappointed around 10 a.m. Tuesday, once you realized there wasn’t as much progress as you thought. What happened next?
“I can’t really speak to it very much because I wasn’t actually in the meetings with our lawyers and stuff. I can only speak on the debrief sessions that we had. As far as the first phone calls that we had (Tuesday), they hadn’t had a meeting yet. They were talking to us about the media storm out there that had been somewhat fabricated to show that we had made progress. I’ll be the first one to say, there has been progress made. There’s no question about it.”
But not as much progress as fans seemed to think?
“Exactly. We’re in the framework in a lot of things for what I believe both sides view as what the deal looks like. But the monetary things, the numbers, are still a good amount away.”
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What has it been like being a Tigers player representative during these times?
“I would say Matt Boyd has done a majority of the legwork from a Tigers perspective, and I’m helping him however I can and whenever he needs thoughts or opinions or anything like that. There’s a group text that we have, just keeping everybody updated. But it’s been stressful, that’s for sure. The calls at times have been very productive in a multitude of different ways, whether it’s disagreements, hearing each other out or talking about things that are blatantly obvious that we need to do or that we don’t need to do. It’s been a full array of different talking points that have happened on the calls. It’s awesome to see from a player’s perspective. This is my sixth year being a player rep, and I’ve never seen us more united as a group of players. Young and old, everybody realizes and recognizes what we’re attempting to do and what we’re set out to do, and that is to make our game better for us now and for guys — or girls — that come to play in the future.”
The unity amongst the players, what does that tell you? If the owners are trying to break the union, is that possible?
“If that’s the motive or the end goal, it’s going to be a hell of a battle to try to get that done. We’re in a situation as players that I’ve never seen us more together and aligned on what we’re after. We don’t want anything, in our opinion as a union, that’s outlandish. In 2019, the league’s total revenue grew to $10.7 billion and rose for the 17th-straight season. Asking for a little bit more of that chunk of the pie, being the ones that are out there aiding those teams in grossing that revenue, we feel like we need to be compensated fairly. And that’s what we’re out to do.”
Take me into those conversations with your new teammates. What’s the group chat like?
“Like we’ve been aligned as players as a total union, it’s been very similar in our team group chat. Everybody’s been on the same page, pulling in the same direction. As far as guys that in the future want to be a part of the union, from a leadership standpoint, Casey Mize has been very vocal that he wants to help in any way, shape or form.”
When we last discussed the CBA negotiations in late January, you said you wanted to be optimistic about Opening Day. But deep down, was this something you saw coming — the cancellation of games and the lockout dragging this long?
“I don’t know if the cancellation of games is something we saw coming. I think it’s been years now where we’ve kind of seen that this type of labor fight was going to happen. I think it was pretty clear even before 2020. But when we were negotiating all the stuff for the season in 2020, it was a precursor to this point, and it furthered our thoughts that this was where we were going to be in 2022.
“Now the cancellation of games, I don’t think anybody saw coming. I think we all know how detrimental it will be to our game, from a fan perspective, especially after what’s happened in the last 18-24 months in baseball, in the world and in the country. But we were prepared for it, unfortunately. I’m thankful that we are prepared for it because I believe we’ve never been in a stronger position from our stance all the way across the board as a union. Unfortunately, here we are. We can’t change anything — the games have been canceled already. I know us as a union will be ready to negotiate and talk whenever the owners are ready. Unfortunately, there’s been a lot of hearsay and things about how these negotiations have gone down. There’s been a lot of talk. There’s not been a lot of physical proposals on paper. Hopefully, that’ll change.”
Andrew Miller (MLBPA executive subcommittee member) said the union is willing to wait for a favorable deal. Do you think this lockout will ride out as long as you guys need it to?
“Fortunately, but unfortunately, we as a union and as players are in that position, mindset and thought process. We’re ready to see this thing through. We’re at this point now, so there’s no reason to let off the gas. The best position is us on the field, the owners watching and fans watching us play. That’s the best position for everybody. I think both sides know that. There’s ultimately a position where there is compromise on both sides and a deal will get done. I’m very hopeful that we’re playing baseball in April. As of now, we’re not going to start on time. I’m just hopeful that it is only those two series, and I’m hopeful that the union and the owners are getting back to the table, if not today, then tomorrow and for as many days as it takes to get something done as fast as we can.”
You don’t think the Players Association will suddenly cave, right?
“Oh, I know the Players Association is not going to cave. That’s not going to happen. We have too good of leadership at the top, both with younger guys and with older guys, that really understands the significance of what we’re doing and are very aware of where league revenues are. We’re in a really good spot. I think we’ll get something done here in the relative short term. When that is, I don’t know. But I think both sides know the best situation is for us on the field playing. It just has to be a fair deal. That’s all we’ve been asking for and searching for and trying to negotiate. We’ve negotiated against ourselves as players so many times. We came down off numbers, asks and demands time and time again — willingly, not because a counterproposal has been made. We know that we’re ready to play. It just needs to make sense and be fair.”
Is there a certain point when the owners might lose some of their leverage?
“I don’t know from their side because we’re not in a position where we see any of their books. We don’t really know when any of their revenues kick in. We do know as a union — it differs from team to team — that local TV revenues, the RSNs (Regional Sports Networks), it fluctuates between 140 and 150 games where they have to schedule and televise or play and televise, whatever it may be, for those TV contracts to be paid out. If they play less than their amount of games between that 140 and 150, that’s when those local TV revenues take a hit. Maybe that’s when we’ll get something. But I don’t know what their books look like. We know bits and pieces, or as much as they want to share with us, but there’s not much I know.”
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What do you think about some of the specifics: the minimum salary, the pre-arbitration bonus pool and the competitive balance tax?
“Regarding the pre-arb bonus pool and the minimums and stuff like that, we believe as a union that we’re trying to get our younger players paid earlier. And the league agrees with that. They’ve agreed that our younger guys need to see more money earlier on in their careers without having to sign an extension. I’m completely in agreement with that. The CBT, raising it is good for competition. There’s a real advantage to our game when teams can spend more money and have the ability to spend more money without as harsh of repercussions.
“I don’t think we’re setting out as a union to try and make everybody pay every dollar they have. Rebuilding is going to happen, that’s obvious. Saving money is going to happen, that’s obvious. Tanking, in my opinion, is going to happen. It’s inevitable, in my opinion. We’re not trying to go out and have 30 teams spend all the money that they can. What we’re after is — if there are 15 teams actively spending money and trying to win, as a union, what we’re trying to do is take that 15 number and make it 20. I think that helps competition. That helps us as players. It helps provides more jobs for guys. I’m completely aligned and in agreement that we need to raise the CBT. That is aligned with the grossing revenue that the league has seen over the last decade-plus. I don’t personally think that’s too much to ask. We as a union believe the threshold now is a little bit too low. When teams are approaching this CBT number, they know if they go through the threshold, they’re going to have to be taxed on it. They may have money to spend on players, but they don’t have money to spend on players and pay the taxes. So, by raising that number, we feel as a union it will allow more teams to spend more money and not be penalized as much as they would be if the threshold was lower.”
Where do you stand on having 12 or 14 teams make the postseason?
“I think 14 is a little high. That’s nearly half of the league. I think you see it in the NBA with as many teams as they allow in the playoffs. By the time you get down to the eight seeds, it’s watered down and there are teams under .500 making the playoffs. By having 14 teams in the playoffs, there will come a time where — I mean, there are analytics for everything now in the game — teams and front offices will understand what it’s going to take for them to squeak into the playoffs. As long as we get to 82 wins, or whatever that number is, teams will know that. It runs the risk of lowering or watering down the competition. I’m perfectly fine with 12 teams. I think 12 is a very good number. It provides teams and players with a better chance of making the playoffs, but it keeps the competition and the luster of making the playoffs and winning the division. It still holds that pretty strong. But I think the 14 number is a little bit too high.”
Do you think the union will budge from the 12-team request?
“I don’t know. I think we’re still unfortunately kind of far away as far as what the end of the deal looks like. But I would assume if we got everything we wanted, per se, and the only thing the owners were asking for back was a 14-team playoff, I’d be willing to bet that we’d have to have a heart-to-heart conversation amongst us as players. In the right format, I think 14 could work. But I still think it does kind of water it down a bit. However, I don’t see that as a deal breaker. That’s what I’m trying to say.”
How far away are both sides from an agreement?
“As far away as we are is what’s out there.”
Is there an emotion attached to that?
“I’d be lying if I told you there’s not a little bit of a ‘F-U’ type of feeling from the players’ perspective that I think we’re going to have to get over to truly get something done. We do feel like, at this point, we’ve exhausted all options and done everything we possibly can to get a deal done. And we don’t feel like that’s been reciprocated. There is a little bit of that element that’s at play now. As long as we can get back to the table and there’s work being done on both sides, I think we’ll get over that pretty quickly.
“But I honestly can’t give a timetable or date or number of days. I can’t really put that into words. I know how we’re feeling as players, but I don’t know how the owners are feeling. If I knew that, then I’d be getting a deal done for everybody. But I just don’t know. I wish I did.”
It’s been six years. Are you tired of being a player rep?
“It’s funny you say that. My wife and I were actually talking about it when the meetings in Florida started about 10 days ago. I was like, ‘I cannot wait to be done being a player rep.’ But for me, especially after the last 48 hours, I’m proud to be a part of our union, and I’m proud to be a part of our player group and our leadership. We’re walking down something that’s never been done and trying to redo a flawed system, in our opinion. To be a part of that, it sucks that we’re here, but it’s cool to be a part of and see the inner workings of it on a daily basis. I want to keep doing it. I didn’t think I did, but my tune has changed. I’m proud to be a part of our union.”
Any thoughts on Rob Manfred’s press conference when he announced games were getting canceled?
“I didn’t even watch it. I saw the screen grabs on social media. I have maintained this stance the whole time: the lockout was unnecessary, canceling games are unnecessary. Gone are the days of guys going to spring training to get ready for the season from a physical, getting-in-shape standpoint. There are live at-bats at the facility that I’m working out at basically every other day. We have the access to things in the offseason now that maybe we didn’t have in the last CBA or the CBA before that.
“The league has said we have to have four weeks of spring training. I don’t know if that’s accurate. Saying canceling games on March 1 had to happen, I don’t necessarily agree with that or believe that. Just like saying the lockout had to happen. I don’t believe that either. That’s just my thoughts.
“I didn’t watch the press conference, so I don’t even know what he said. I just saw the pictures of him smiling. But it is what it is, man. You got to just keep moving forward and try not to get emotionally wrapped up in it too much. It’s messed with me the last 72 hours more than it has this whole time — just a roller coaster ride of emotions and four, five, six Zoom calls a day. It’s been a lot. I want to get it done. I want it to be fair. And I want to get back on the field and start playing.”
What do you say to fans asking this question: If the players want to play so badly, why didn’t they just accept MLB’s offer?
“I appreciate that thought. I really do. I think it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways. However, I think there are things from a broader stroke that we have to look out for with the players that are coming after us. There are things that we were being asked for that had the potential to split apart the union, split apart players and put guys in positions to lose jobs because of competition and the way the free-agent market, or lack thereof, would be tailored.
“There’s a lot of moving parts. I don’t mean this in a derogatory way, but there’s just so many things that were talked about, written down or not written down or put into a package. There were so many things out there — the minimums, the CBT, the pre-arb pool — that were ‘offered.’ … But there’s also a litany of other things that were not said to be proposed that were attached to all these things: patches on jerseys, international drafts and things that haven’t once been said to be talked about. If we said yes to one thing, we had to say yes to all these other things.
“We were put in a position that if we wanted to see the integrity of our game, in our opinion, go down the drain, we could have said yes. But we’re in a position where we believe, based on the way the industry has gone and how lucrative it has been the last decade, we needed to reconstruct the way it looks from a monetary standpoint. We’re looking to take care of the players that come after us and the generations after them.
“I ask for some patience. I know it sucks. It sucks for us equally as much. We miss the fans so much. We missed them in 2020. We know what it’s like to not be out there playing. Obviously, this is a completely different issue, but I would just ask for some patience, ask for some grace and the understanding that labor issues and battles happen all the time in all kinds of jobs. This is just on the largest stage in the world and happens to be for a lot of money.
“I think we all echo the sentiment that we wish we were playing. And we will be. I hope that’s sooner rather than later.”
Contact Evan Petzold at epetzold@freepress.com or follow him on Twitter @EvanPetzold. Read more on the Detroit Tigers and sign up for our Tigers newsletter.